[Buildbot-devel] Notes from the summit

[Dustin J. Mitchell]

(quoting the whole message, since Gav's reply didn't seem to make it
to the list)

On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 2:26 AM, Gav... <gavin at 16degrees.com.au> wrote:
> Ok, thanks for the notes, here are some suggestions which should help
> users, developers and maintainers like yourself recognise and encourage
> developers.
>
> 1. YAML. Last year I persuaded you guys to separate commits into a new list.
>   I also asked for a users list, though I didn't push it. Now I would
>   recommend is a good time. Reasons:
>
>        a. Traffic - there is sufficient traffic on the devel list to
> warrant
>           splitting users emails from developers.
>
>        b. Users are non too comfortable wading in with their seemingly
> simple
>           question amongst the plethora of dev work going on. Therefore
> user
>           questions should be separated. Developers who want to continue to
>
>           help users with their questions will be encouraged to join this
>           new list also.
>
>        c. With User questions separated, it makes it easier to see who the
>           developers are and what they are working on, those developers
> that
>           are not interested in user discussion or help can concentrate on
>           developing without distraction. Note - by developer here I mean
>           those working on Buildbot code. Many of our 'Users' of course are
>           developers in their own right :)

I'm open to persuasion here, but at this point the counterarguments to this are:

 A. it's not often clear what is a dev issue and what is a users issue.
 B. splitting lists implicitly splits the community

Currently, most of the development discussion is on #buildbot.

If there are {users,devs} on this list who are annoyed by the volume
of {dev,user}-related emails, speak up!

> 2. Website. I'll be blunt, I don't like Trac - at least not as a website, it
>   is useful as a wiki of course but (as part of my next suggestion) in
> order
>   to have more committer type documentation , enticing look and feel etc, I
>   think a proper website is on order. This could be a CMS - but I think we
>   should probably just go with creating web pages in (x)html , have the
> source
>   to the website in git so others can also contribute to that.
>        As Dustin mentioned in a previous email, branding is key also, the
> website
>   will need to be similar looking to Trac - so need to alter that too so it
> looks
>   better. A nice flowing , easy to navigate website with good developer
> documentation
>   will also help bring more help to the project.

This would be great.  As I said in the summit, I am the *last* person
who should be working on this, but if you're willing to take it on,
please do!

I'm not a huge fan of Trac, either, but there are some prerequisites
to moving away from it:
 - bug numbers and content must not change, as they are mentioned in the source
 - users must be able to easily cc themselves via email on bugs

As far as replacing the main Buildbot site with HTML - I'd be happy to
see that done, provided
 - some kind of templating is used to avoid duplication of headers,
footers, etc.
 - common changes are easy to make with minimal equipment required

I can set up Buildbot to automatically update the site on a commit.

> 3. More Documentation - and I don't mean on how to use Buildbot , I mean
> more
>   developer documentation, how to get involved, what is a committer, who we
> are (
>   a list of voted in committers), roles - release manager, core
> maintainers, admins,
>   etc.. There are a sparse few scatterings buried in Trac, like how to
> submit a
>   patch is buried as a link on a page - this sort of stuff needs bringing
> out in
>   the open into a central developer area - ideally on the new website
> proposed
>   above. :)

Yes, I'm planning to work on this today.

> That'll do for now. There is much I haven't even touched on from your
> meeting,
> but hope this gets you started.
>
> Of course, 1 is easy, either create a new list or not. If you decide to go
> with
> 2 and 3 , of course I will volunteer to get that going.

Great!  I'd love the help!  Let's start small and work on up, rather
than shooting for the stars.  Perhaps that means building a site
first?

Dustin